Very sentimental piece ! When DeGrom was his absolute best in 2018 and 19 the Mets had crappy owners and gave him no support. The Mets get the best owner in MLB and he gets injured. Then we find out he didnt want to be in NY. He was 'playing' everyone all long to drive up his price. This is not a Piazza, a Hernandez, a Seaver to name a few. The Mets made a great offer and he still didnt want to stay. What his ego was bruised cause Scherzer came, he didnt want to get vaccinated, he wants a wram weather city, whatever - I for one won't miss him knowing all this. Lets Go Mets !
Excited to see what they do. As I’ve said a few times, I think starting pitching has become overpriced in the modern game. The Heyman article said it well. DeGrom and Diaz pitched about the same number of innings last season, and unlike Diaz, deGrom never threw in the high leverage 8th or 9th. Is he worth twice as much?
If 25 starts at 5-6 innings is now considered a full workload for a top end starter, then top end starters shouldn’t be paid more than high leverage relievers, and certainly not more than every day all stars.
If team payroll is a zero sum game, as it seems it is even for Cohen, given the penalties you described yesterday JB, then not only did the Mets do right by not bringing him back, they should not bring in Verlander or Rodon. They should take a hard line on starting pitcher salary and shop in the $15-20 AAV aisle, including bringing back known quantities Walker and Williams, counting their lucky stars that they have two serviceable rookie contract starters in Megill and Peterson to balance the outrageous Scherzer deal over the next 2 years.
How satisfying would it be to bring back Noah Syndergaard on a 5 year $75M dollar deal, given what we expected to have to pay to keep him a Met 3 off seasons ago when we chose to let Wheeler walk? He’s young and healthy now, he’s grown mentally through a drawn out physical challenge in different clubhouse settings, and I’d expect him to get back to top flight level for the majority of that deal and end up being a long term bargain.
Andrew Heaney is probably good for a few 18 start if 5-6 inning seasons, given his recent experiences. Quintana has a reliable year in him. Wade Miley is a crafty junk balling lefty who is back from injury. Lots of options tgat wont break the bank.
If you have enough of these serviceable guys, you never get caught short.
Spend the big bucks on the lineup. Nimmo is irreplaceable in today’s market, has done everything this organization has asked of him over his entire adult and professional life, and now at age 30 is clearly still in an upward trajectory. You want a life-long Met? A Captain? A retired number on the wall? These are all realistic possibilities for Brandon Nimmo. If anyone deserves those extra dollars and years for past service and potential legacy impact on the franchise, it’s Brandon Nimmo. For that, are you gonna quibble that he’s only worth 4@$22M AAV, not 5@$28 or 6@$25M.
Give a Lindor like monster contract to Trea Turner, and watch this lineup become so potent on both sides of the ball for 162 games that it won’t matter who is on the mound for the first 5.2 innings most nights. With the ascent of Baty and Alvarez to the major league roster, cost controlled Vogelbach, Guillorme, and Nido then become superfluous assets that can be used to obtain pitching.
The reliever/starter point is very interesting. The more teams rely on the bullpen, the more you have to think about these things differently, as you said.
I do think there is added value keeping a positional player who came up through your system like Nimmo. I hope that works out.
I also think the Mets should tread carefully with Verlander. I hope they don’t go three years to ensure they get him.
Great points, as always, Jon! Glad to be back talking about the Mets after a little break.
Saddens me that it has come to this with starting pitching. I still think it’s wrong. I rewatched Seavers’s game 4 in the 69 series in YouTube, and counted his pitches (I know 🥹). 147 pitches over 10 innings. So many points he would have been pulled out if it were happening today. He threw lots of soft pitches thoughout though, that they don’t bother with today. It’s full effort every pitch. Is it really necessary?
The payroll flexibility this off-season really diminishes though if Plan B is to give Verlander 2 years at $35-40M, doesn't it? So I'm not sure how much this impacts signing Nimmo unless they don't get another $30M arm. It then becomes more about long-term flexibility at a time where they'll have both Verlander and Scherzer off the books.
Agreed. It’s really about the long-term flexibility at that point. If they sign Verlander for 2 years instead of deGrom for 4 (which some reports suggest they might have done if he was willing), that’s two years less overlap with Nimmo on a 5-year deal. So that’s one way to look at it. But signing Verlander definitely takes them out of the game for doing a lot of costly things this offseason
And for whatever reason, Jake didn't want to be a Met. Oh well. Diaz showed how easy and clear it is when that's your priority. The club said "Great!" and made him the highest paid reliever in baseball.
Mannnnnn, you Economists are the proverbial life of the party, aren't you? Lol....my wife is at the end of her Bachelors degree in Bus Administration, and she took that Micro and Macro stuff in her Economics classes, and she heard about Jake leaving, went straight intoa Steve Cohen pulling a typical "Bobby Axlerod" of "BILLIONS", "Makes Economics, Not Emotional sense", type deal: and ALLi I could hear from her mouth was Charlie Browns, "WOMP, WOMP, WOMP, WOMP, WOOOOOMP!" LOL.
Bruh, I started watching that show before I knew it was about Steve, and feel in love with it.... anyone interested in Business and involved in Ec should watch it. Only drawback is that nasty 6 letter word that most men despise: BUDGET! 🤣🤣🤣.... You're a cool Cat... You and my man Jmac are the only two I'll sub to 💪🏽💪🏽💪🏽
Doesn’t it seem like it’s the younger Met fans who are more upset about Jake leaving than the older ones? I get it, he’s their guy. But as an “older Met fan,” I’m not all that bummed. Good for him that he got the money that he did but there’s no way I would have wanted our front office to even consider matching what Texas gave Jake (not that it might have mattered anyway). I’m just tired of his constant unavailability and then always having to worry about him holding up every time he does pitch. All the best to Jacob in Arlington. I hope when all is said and done for him there he’ll have no regrets.
Is it a foregone conclusion that Walker isn’t returning as well? If so, why? He did a nice job for the Mets last year and was an all star the year before that. I’ve read where they’ve shown definitive interest in Taillon.. Walker is a better pitcher though imo and I doubt he’s breaking the bank to get signed. Not a top of the rotation guy, obviously, but neither is Taillon (or Heaney, for that matter, who until last season was somewhat of a career stiff),
Should be interesting with the winter meetings starting tomorrow.
Jake is a Simple Man, so New York is not for him. He prefers Green Acres over NYC. He got the $$ and he’s where he wants to be, but he won’t ever get to pitch in the World Series.
Great article, you capture the feeling most have; It's sad but not that big a deal, time to move on, I think most of us are greatful that the Mets didn't blow their load on a guy who's been a non-factor for 2 years.
I'm excited for what moves are comming this off season and anticipating another fun season filled with Championship dreams.
Very sentimental piece ! When DeGrom was his absolute best in 2018 and 19 the Mets had crappy owners and gave him no support. The Mets get the best owner in MLB and he gets injured. Then we find out he didnt want to be in NY. He was 'playing' everyone all long to drive up his price. This is not a Piazza, a Hernandez, a Seaver to name a few. The Mets made a great offer and he still didnt want to stay. What his ego was bruised cause Scherzer came, he didnt want to get vaccinated, he wants a wram weather city, whatever - I for one won't miss him knowing all this. Lets Go Mets !
That's a HR ballpark, too.
Jeff, I’m not having any widespread panic, but I am listening to The Grateful Dead and Goose today.
Excited to see what they do. As I’ve said a few times, I think starting pitching has become overpriced in the modern game. The Heyman article said it well. DeGrom and Diaz pitched about the same number of innings last season, and unlike Diaz, deGrom never threw in the high leverage 8th or 9th. Is he worth twice as much?
If 25 starts at 5-6 innings is now considered a full workload for a top end starter, then top end starters shouldn’t be paid more than high leverage relievers, and certainly not more than every day all stars.
If team payroll is a zero sum game, as it seems it is even for Cohen, given the penalties you described yesterday JB, then not only did the Mets do right by not bringing him back, they should not bring in Verlander or Rodon. They should take a hard line on starting pitcher salary and shop in the $15-20 AAV aisle, including bringing back known quantities Walker and Williams, counting their lucky stars that they have two serviceable rookie contract starters in Megill and Peterson to balance the outrageous Scherzer deal over the next 2 years.
How satisfying would it be to bring back Noah Syndergaard on a 5 year $75M dollar deal, given what we expected to have to pay to keep him a Met 3 off seasons ago when we chose to let Wheeler walk? He’s young and healthy now, he’s grown mentally through a drawn out physical challenge in different clubhouse settings, and I’d expect him to get back to top flight level for the majority of that deal and end up being a long term bargain.
Andrew Heaney is probably good for a few 18 start if 5-6 inning seasons, given his recent experiences. Quintana has a reliable year in him. Wade Miley is a crafty junk balling lefty who is back from injury. Lots of options tgat wont break the bank.
If you have enough of these serviceable guys, you never get caught short.
Spend the big bucks on the lineup. Nimmo is irreplaceable in today’s market, has done everything this organization has asked of him over his entire adult and professional life, and now at age 30 is clearly still in an upward trajectory. You want a life-long Met? A Captain? A retired number on the wall? These are all realistic possibilities for Brandon Nimmo. If anyone deserves those extra dollars and years for past service and potential legacy impact on the franchise, it’s Brandon Nimmo. For that, are you gonna quibble that he’s only worth 4@$22M AAV, not 5@$28 or 6@$25M.
Give a Lindor like monster contract to Trea Turner, and watch this lineup become so potent on both sides of the ball for 162 games that it won’t matter who is on the mound for the first 5.2 innings most nights. With the ascent of Baty and Alvarez to the major league roster, cost controlled Vogelbach, Guillorme, and Nido then become superfluous assets that can be used to obtain pitching.
Fun stuff to think about.
The reliever/starter point is very interesting. The more teams rely on the bullpen, the more you have to think about these things differently, as you said.
I do think there is added value keeping a positional player who came up through your system like Nimmo. I hope that works out.
I also think the Mets should tread carefully with Verlander. I hope they don’t go three years to ensure they get him.
Great points, as always, Jon! Glad to be back talking about the Mets after a little break.
Saddens me that it has come to this with starting pitching. I still think it’s wrong. I rewatched Seavers’s game 4 in the 69 series in YouTube, and counted his pitches (I know 🥹). 147 pitches over 10 innings. So many points he would have been pulled out if it were happening today. He threw lots of soft pitches thoughout though, that they don’t bother with today. It’s full effort every pitch. Is it really necessary?
What is the winter for but to rewatch classic games on YouTube? Lol
deGrom is going to have to think about his “full effort” approach as he pitches in the heat in Texas and continues to age.
Forgot to mention about Syndergaard in my previous comment. I guess he met with the Orioles recently.
Syndergaard is going to be the steal of the off-season, imho.
The payroll flexibility this off-season really diminishes though if Plan B is to give Verlander 2 years at $35-40M, doesn't it? So I'm not sure how much this impacts signing Nimmo unless they don't get another $30M arm. It then becomes more about long-term flexibility at a time where they'll have both Verlander and Scherzer off the books.
Agreed. It’s really about the long-term flexibility at that point. If they sign Verlander for 2 years instead of deGrom for 4 (which some reports suggest they might have done if he was willing), that’s two years less overlap with Nimmo on a 5-year deal. So that’s one way to look at it. But signing Verlander definitely takes them out of the game for doing a lot of costly things this offseason
Sad.
But I didn't want the Mets to top that contract.
And for whatever reason, Jake didn't want to be a Met. Oh well. Diaz showed how easy and clear it is when that's your priority. The club said "Great!" and made him the highest paid reliever in baseball.
I'm good with this. But, yeah, sucks.
Mannnnnn, you Economists are the proverbial life of the party, aren't you? Lol....my wife is at the end of her Bachelors degree in Bus Administration, and she took that Micro and Macro stuff in her Economics classes, and she heard about Jake leaving, went straight intoa Steve Cohen pulling a typical "Bobby Axlerod" of "BILLIONS", "Makes Economics, Not Emotional sense", type deal: and ALLi I could hear from her mouth was Charlie Browns, "WOMP, WOMP, WOMP, WOMP, WOOOOOMP!" LOL.
Hahaha I love it! And Billions is a good show to make us quants seem interesting lol
Bruh, I started watching that show before I knew it was about Steve, and feel in love with it.... anyone interested in Business and involved in Ec should watch it. Only drawback is that nasty 6 letter word that most men despise: BUDGET! 🤣🤣🤣.... You're a cool Cat... You and my man Jmac are the only two I'll sub to 💪🏽💪🏽💪🏽
Really appreciate that, my friend!
James McCann?
The possibilities deGrom’s departure creates are so exciting. We are going to have some excellent presents under the tree 🌲 this year #LFGM
Doesn’t it seem like it’s the younger Met fans who are more upset about Jake leaving than the older ones? I get it, he’s their guy. But as an “older Met fan,” I’m not all that bummed. Good for him that he got the money that he did but there’s no way I would have wanted our front office to even consider matching what Texas gave Jake (not that it might have mattered anyway). I’m just tired of his constant unavailability and then always having to worry about him holding up every time he does pitch. All the best to Jacob in Arlington. I hope when all is said and done for him there he’ll have no regrets.
Is it a foregone conclusion that Walker isn’t returning as well? If so, why? He did a nice job for the Mets last year and was an all star the year before that. I’ve read where they’ve shown definitive interest in Taillon.. Walker is a better pitcher though imo and I doubt he’s breaking the bank to get signed. Not a top of the rotation guy, obviously, but neither is Taillon (or Heaney, for that matter, who until last season was somewhat of a career stiff),
Should be interesting with the winter meetings starting tomorrow.
Jake is a Simple Man, so New York is not for him. He prefers Green Acres over NYC. He got the $$ and he’s where he wants to be, but he won’t ever get to pitch in the World Series.
“Darling I love you but give me Park Avenue.”
Great article, you capture the feeling most have; It's sad but not that big a deal, time to move on, I think most of us are greatful that the Mets didn't blow their load on a guy who's been a non-factor for 2 years.
I'm excited for what moves are comming this off season and anticipating another fun season filled with Championship dreams.
Indeed Bruh, indeed 💪🏽