We have to win 3 of the next 4, no two ways about it. And probably 6 of 7. Buck Needs to make the right lineup choices NOW, and utilize his best relievers with a sense of urgency. Nido, not McCann. There are no good choices for DH and RF against LHP the next two games but let’s hope Buck strikes gold. Eppler’s acquisitions continue to fail- Nyquil and Vogel bagodonuts contributed nothing last night. Watch out for Luzardo-he’s inconsistent and often injured but when he’s on he’s lights out. Last start he struck out 11 Cubs in 6.2.
It would be nice to believe memories of 2007-08 are in the rearview mirror, but that game last night had the same dismal feel of those horrible games against the Nats the last week of '07. Braves are clearly just better than Mets, based on, among other things, how they hold serve against bad teams, while Mets have proven unable to do so. Hello wildcard.
I agree that Atlanta is better at this playoff dash than the Mets. As fans, we hope the Mets are quick learners, at least quicker than Atlanta (their NL East domination has not brought the string of World Series Championships one would expect).
It is one thing to relinquish the division by losing to the team you're in competition with, but quite another to tank against inferior teams at exactly the wrong time. I don't even want to watch tonight.
I certainly wish they had won 2 more games this stretch, but this is not the 2007 finish. That team finished 5-12, all but 3 of those games against non-playoff/sub .500 teams. The Mets are 14-10 in September; should be better given the opponents, but they are not collapsing like 2007 at all. They do need a win tonight though.
It hasn't felt like '07 at all really ... until last night's game. It just brought back the nightmare of losing to an awful Washington team three straight days in the last week of '07. Of course, we'll still get to the post-season this time, I'm just reflecting on the emotions I personally experienced watching last night's game - for the first time in about 14 years. It was so bad back then that I was actually grateful they sucked for those next years, because at least there wouldn't be another unbearable choke - and years of therapy to recover!
Actually, 14 years ago today we said goodbye to Shea. With a 3-2 loss to the Marlins. In the rain. Right before an amazing ceremony with every Mets player you can think of. Talk about a gut punch.
While not quite as bad as ‘07, there are shadows enough to evoke the feelings of dread. The context makes them comparable. A team with the ability to put away the team trailing them, loses just the right amount of games that should have been easy wins to let their rival catch them. They have 7 more games to make us forget about 2007. 4 of this games are at home, against terrible teams that they have dominated until this month. Especially at home, until this month. I actually expect them to do well against the Braves this weekend. I don’t have the same feeling about tonight and the three next week against Washington. 5-6 at home in September against bottom dwellers. More than half the games, in front of our home fans, where the starting pitcher doesn’t give them even a quality start, and the offense makes the opposing, unaccomplished pitchers, look like all stars.
Boy, I wish I could disagree with you, but I guess we should all have been alerted to these shadows of '07 (and '08) when they got swept by the Cubs at home earlier in the month. To win less than half the games against bottom feeders with the division on the line is utterly disgraceful. If they lose again to Miami, gird your loins because it will get ugly. Braves are a confident, accomplished and supremely talented bunch that has proven they can win under intense pressure. But only a WS title would make up for the disappointment/shame of handing away the division we led for 90%+ of the season.
Is bottom feeders the correct term for the last place teams? I think Atlanta is the bottom feeder. They feast on these guys. These teams are the low end meal that lives on the bottom. I guess our Metsies only like the fancy food.
Very true. Honestly, I'm not thinking rationally today. I am actively going with platitudes to blunt the trauma. I will, however, force myself to watch.
Here is my plan: wait until about the 6th inning, check the score and then watch on DVR from the beginning if it's not another nightmare and by the time I catch up to live action, I can check the standings and see if they won. If so, I'll watch the rest of the game. If not, no way I'll watch them lose another one like last night. After all, this is the type of joyless game where there's no feel-good in beating a far inferior opponent, but plenty of upset if they lose. This approach has worked extremely well for me over the years, saving me the untold angst of watching a loss slowly and painfully unfold.
I have followed this team for 53 years now. I shouldnt wake bumed out that they have already won 97 games and are in the playoffs. However, i am ! To be in first all year and now probably end up with a wild card sucks. I know the jets I root for suck the life out of the stadium the Mets have seemingly done that at Citi as well. There should be a plan already - as in RIGHT NOW - where the games are going to be played and when. Are they waiting to see if it really is going to come when it is a historical storm - oye !
Fifty-three years for me, too! I'm bummed out as well. Rational me knows that it is very difficult to win it all after decades of putrid management and personnel decisions. Team emerges as a contender but they cannot seal the deal and win a championship. Often they win it the next year (hi KC Royals, ya punks). You have to go through it to learn how to win it (see Edmonton Oilers in 1983 SC final vs. 1984 SC final). Irrational me wants it to be easy and celebrate the last week of the year. Instead, I'm filled with dread. As for a weather contingency plan, I think that is MLB's call. I would hate for regular season games played after October 5th.
I was seven for Seaver's rookie year and I was aware of baseball but I remember that year for Carl Yastrzemski. He won the Triple Crown, Boston finally had a really good team and then they ran into Bob Gibson. I remember this because my father was a rabid NL fan and he did not see the romanticism of Yaz finally bringing it home to Boston. I kind of wanted Boston to win. There was Yaz White Bread selling in Boston. Same thing the next year: I wanted Detroit to win. Somehow I instinctively knew to dislike the Cardinals. The next year was 1969 and that was it: Metsies for life.
Last night was a gut punch. It was painful to watch. Fortunately, I do not think the team is dragging as much as its fans. The Mets will win tonight and we can hope Josiah Gray pitches the game of his life in DC. #LGM
I'm annoyed with how sleepy last night felt; but I think we need a little perspective across the board. This is not 2007 at all. We have been chased by the 3rd or 4th best team in baseball for the better part of 3.5 months, and to be honest as a fan, it is a bit exhausting to be in such a race. However, thus far they have spent one day out of first place and are on pace for 100+ wins. This team deserves a little more faith from the fan base then what we seem to be granting them. The Cubs series was very bad, but they are 8-3 since then; this is not an end of season collapse. Barring some weirdness, it will essentially come down to the series in Atlanta with our 3 best pitchers going.
I would like to see a little more life tonight; we could use a very good Walker performance.
I'm not convinced we are seeing Marte on Friday; that injury has come at a bad time; hopefully he's ready for the playoffs.
Re: the crowd. I really don't have much patience for sports writers telling fans how to spend hundreds of dollars. I don't live locally so I definitely can't talk, but even if I did, there's no chance I would be going to a Tuesday night game with kids at home. It's a really expensive night out or you're leaving your spouse at home to tend to the kids. Also, if I'm going to spend hundreds of dollars, I'll just wait a week or two and go to a playoff game. Just a little rant about that.
Agreed on all but the perspective thing. The 2007 comparisons are legitimate. Can’t help how we feel as fans. Previous experience biases how we perceive ensuing experiences. I’ve been waiting my entire life for this team to come out on top in a race that goes to the final weekend. Time for a win.
But on the attendance issue, the mixed messages of MLB and the media is much to blame. They’ve made it all about the playoffs. They’ve watered down the pennant race. They’ve devalued winning the regular season. Pitchers don’t stay in for the extra inning. Guys “build up” and take scheduled off days like it’s Spring training. Guys don’t play through aches and pains. We hear over and over how it’s all about getting so and so on the mound and healthy for the playoffs.
They should postpone the games against Atlanta until next week, and cancel the sleepy games that they have scheduled against Washington and Miami respectively.
It's been mentioned at times in various outlets...even Jeffrey has quoted it here, I think, that Buck to paraphrase, 'is okay with going 2-3' or .500 for bits of the season. Well the consequences of that are that we're tied for first with 0 margin for error when we should've wrapped it up last month. We have to basically win out to get the division.
I think that's called a false correlation. Because Buck is supposedly "okay" with losing games during the season is not why the Mets are tied for 1st place right now.
Though it might be why the pen is healthy and perfectly poised to excel here at the end of a long year.
So many things go into a season. To lay this on Buck's supposed willingness to lose games is a dramatic overstatement.
In the end, the Braves are a great team and for the Mets to win the Division, they are going to have to go down to Atlanta and take care of business. It's always been about Jake & Max and now here we are. We'll see what happens.
I am playing the classic 'correlation is not causation' fallacy a....smidge, lol. It does appear we have a lot of 'getaway day' approaches to games that don't match up to the mantra/work ethic most games and tends to come on days we don't sweep a winnable series or beat a sub .500 team and pitcher that's got an ERA above 5.
Granted, it is heightened right now given context of the division race. Yes, don't put Diaz in every day and burn him out because we're going to the playoffs. And, there have been too many games where they keep Williams or Carrasco or Peterson or Smith or Lugo or MeGill in too long, hitters start piling up noncompetitive AB after noncompetitive AB from the 5th inning on and a game we can get even in or salvage win with a timely hit or a good bounce becomes an insurmountable and confusing loss.
For the Mets to win the division, the core of this team - the drafted, 'home grown' Mets have to overcome chronic flaws/deficits against ATL this weekend and especially the Nats next week that continue to show up in these games that cause us not to go 8-2 or put away the Braves in July/August/September: errors on double players, missing cutoff throws, diving for routine grounders or not deferring to a teammate down the line to complete a play, pitchers need to lock down the middle innings/relief, catchers need to throw out base runners, hitting with RISP <2 outs in more than 1 or 2 spots in the lineup, hitting lefty starters, hitting any starters early with POWER not 2014 KC Royals style.
The 'additions' have proven their worth in crunch time. Time for the 'core from 2019' - which includes Pete as much as people bristle I say that - to FINISH what they started, which is dominate lesser clubs and win the division. Not just 'sit back, relax and enjoy that we play baseball' as Pete famously said last year.
That poised pen should have been used earlier last night. I understand not yanking deGrom earlier on Saturday, because he is deGrom and it was hard to believe he was going to fold like he did. But we’ve seen this many times from Carrasco, and the bullpen was rested. He did not right the ship in the second, and he did not right the ship in the third. The bullpen was completely rested with another off day scheduled on Thursday. What the hell was he saving these bullpen arms for if not for that last night?
And then once we got back in the game, Williams really just had to complete that second inning after the leadoff double? After the HBP? After the next single? Good grief, Buck. Use your hook!!!
5-2 if they win the series in Atlanta guarantees the division. They have made it harder on themselves by leaving a win or two on the table this month, but they don't need to run the table.
Here’s one. Last night didn’t matter: even if they had won, the best they could hope for was clinching on Sunday, and that’s still the situation.
Win tonight and sweep the Braves. Anything short of that and the the team is playing against another bottom dweller at home next week in must win games with the likes of Carrasco and Walker on the hill. And we know how that might go.
All Hands On Deck Tonight, Buck. Biggest game of the year. Do not fall behind again because your bottom of the rotation starter has to work some crap out in the first inning. Pull him early if he stumbles and bring in a high leverage guy to right the ship.
And just start Luis and forget about those lame ass designated “hitters”.
It's really jarring how disappointing this all seems. I know there is some sort of lesson to be learned here, but I'll be damned if I know what it is.
We have to win 3 of the next 4, no two ways about it. And probably 6 of 7. Buck Needs to make the right lineup choices NOW, and utilize his best relievers with a sense of urgency. Nido, not McCann. There are no good choices for DH and RF against LHP the next two games but let’s hope Buck strikes gold. Eppler’s acquisitions continue to fail- Nyquil and Vogel bagodonuts contributed nothing last night. Watch out for Luzardo-he’s inconsistent and often injured but when he’s on he’s lights out. Last start he struck out 11 Cubs in 6.2.
The quality of the opposing pitcher is meaningless against the Mets. This team either hits, or they don’t. It’s all in their heads.
I think they miss Marte's bat more than anyone is giving credence to.
He could give Terrance Gore a shot. I bet he can work out a few walks and use that speed to make something happen. It would not hurt, right?
It would be nice to believe memories of 2007-08 are in the rearview mirror, but that game last night had the same dismal feel of those horrible games against the Nats the last week of '07. Braves are clearly just better than Mets, based on, among other things, how they hold serve against bad teams, while Mets have proven unable to do so. Hello wildcard.
Yes Atlanta is better but our Big 3 starters plus Diaz is something that no other team has.
Definitely. I am not souring on the Mets but I think I am going to have to see a win tonight to restore my equilibrium.
I agree that Atlanta is better at this playoff dash than the Mets. As fans, we hope the Mets are quick learners, at least quicker than Atlanta (their NL East domination has not brought the string of World Series Championships one would expect).
It is one thing to relinquish the division by losing to the team you're in competition with, but quite another to tank against inferior teams at exactly the wrong time. I don't even want to watch tonight.
I certainly wish they had won 2 more games this stretch, but this is not the 2007 finish. That team finished 5-12, all but 3 of those games against non-playoff/sub .500 teams. The Mets are 14-10 in September; should be better given the opponents, but they are not collapsing like 2007 at all. They do need a win tonight though.
It hasn't felt like '07 at all really ... until last night's game. It just brought back the nightmare of losing to an awful Washington team three straight days in the last week of '07. Of course, we'll still get to the post-season this time, I'm just reflecting on the emotions I personally experienced watching last night's game - for the first time in about 14 years. It was so bad back then that I was actually grateful they sucked for those next years, because at least there wouldn't be another unbearable choke - and years of therapy to recover!
They choked again the following year...
Right, of course, I should have added son of great collapse to great collapse.
Actually, 14 years ago today we said goodbye to Shea. With a 3-2 loss to the Marlins. In the rain. Right before an amazing ceremony with every Mets player you can think of. Talk about a gut punch.
While not quite as bad as ‘07, there are shadows enough to evoke the feelings of dread. The context makes them comparable. A team with the ability to put away the team trailing them, loses just the right amount of games that should have been easy wins to let their rival catch them. They have 7 more games to make us forget about 2007. 4 of this games are at home, against terrible teams that they have dominated until this month. Especially at home, until this month. I actually expect them to do well against the Braves this weekend. I don’t have the same feeling about tonight and the three next week against Washington. 5-6 at home in September against bottom dwellers. More than half the games, in front of our home fans, where the starting pitcher doesn’t give them even a quality start, and the offense makes the opposing, unaccomplished pitchers, look like all stars.
Shameful display.
Boy, I wish I could disagree with you, but I guess we should all have been alerted to these shadows of '07 (and '08) when they got swept by the Cubs at home earlier in the month. To win less than half the games against bottom feeders with the division on the line is utterly disgraceful. If they lose again to Miami, gird your loins because it will get ugly. Braves are a confident, accomplished and supremely talented bunch that has proven they can win under intense pressure. But only a WS title would make up for the disappointment/shame of handing away the division we led for 90%+ of the season.
Is bottom feeders the correct term for the last place teams? I think Atlanta is the bottom feeder. They feast on these guys. These teams are the low end meal that lives on the bottom. I guess our Metsies only like the fancy food.
Very true. Honestly, I'm not thinking rationally today. I am actively going with platitudes to blunt the trauma. I will, however, force myself to watch.
Here is my plan: wait until about the 6th inning, check the score and then watch on DVR from the beginning if it's not another nightmare and by the time I catch up to live action, I can check the standings and see if they won. If so, I'll watch the rest of the game. If not, no way I'll watch them lose another one like last night. After all, this is the type of joyless game where there's no feel-good in beating a far inferior opponent, but plenty of upset if they lose. This approach has worked extremely well for me over the years, saving me the untold angst of watching a loss slowly and painfully unfold.
I like it
I get it - I've taken to my bed rather than deal with it. I think I'm going to need beer tonight.
I have followed this team for 53 years now. I shouldnt wake bumed out that they have already won 97 games and are in the playoffs. However, i am ! To be in first all year and now probably end up with a wild card sucks. I know the jets I root for suck the life out of the stadium the Mets have seemingly done that at Citi as well. There should be a plan already - as in RIGHT NOW - where the games are going to be played and when. Are they waiting to see if it really is going to come when it is a historical storm - oye !
Fifty-three years for me, too! I'm bummed out as well. Rational me knows that it is very difficult to win it all after decades of putrid management and personnel decisions. Team emerges as a contender but they cannot seal the deal and win a championship. Often they win it the next year (hi KC Royals, ya punks). You have to go through it to learn how to win it (see Edmonton Oilers in 1983 SC final vs. 1984 SC final). Irrational me wants it to be easy and celebrate the last week of the year. Instead, I'm filled with dread. As for a weather contingency plan, I think that is MLB's call. I would hate for regular season games played after October 5th.
55 years for me, dating back to Seaver’s rookie year.
I was seven for Seaver's rookie year and I was aware of baseball but I remember that year for Carl Yastrzemski. He won the Triple Crown, Boston finally had a really good team and then they ran into Bob Gibson. I remember this because my father was a rabid NL fan and he did not see the romanticism of Yaz finally bringing it home to Boston. I kind of wanted Boston to win. There was Yaz White Bread selling in Boston. Same thing the next year: I wanted Detroit to win. Somehow I instinctively knew to dislike the Cardinals. The next year was 1969 and that was it: Metsies for life.
Like my Dad and uncles, I was a Dodger fan (Koufax!) 1963-66. Then Koufax retired, and Seaver’s arrival made the Mets no longer a laughingstock.
Same for my father but his 7-year old didn't cooperate at first.
EXACTLY Wend - terrible - cant even enjoy it - great point
Last night was a gut punch. It was painful to watch. Fortunately, I do not think the team is dragging as much as its fans. The Mets will win tonight and we can hope Josiah Gray pitches the game of his life in DC. #LGM
I'm annoyed with how sleepy last night felt; but I think we need a little perspective across the board. This is not 2007 at all. We have been chased by the 3rd or 4th best team in baseball for the better part of 3.5 months, and to be honest as a fan, it is a bit exhausting to be in such a race. However, thus far they have spent one day out of first place and are on pace for 100+ wins. This team deserves a little more faith from the fan base then what we seem to be granting them. The Cubs series was very bad, but they are 8-3 since then; this is not an end of season collapse. Barring some weirdness, it will essentially come down to the series in Atlanta with our 3 best pitchers going.
I would like to see a little more life tonight; we could use a very good Walker performance.
I'm not convinced we are seeing Marte on Friday; that injury has come at a bad time; hopefully he's ready for the playoffs.
Re: the crowd. I really don't have much patience for sports writers telling fans how to spend hundreds of dollars. I don't live locally so I definitely can't talk, but even if I did, there's no chance I would be going to a Tuesday night game with kids at home. It's a really expensive night out or you're leaving your spouse at home to tend to the kids. Also, if I'm going to spend hundreds of dollars, I'll just wait a week or two and go to a playoff game. Just a little rant about that.
Agreed on all but the perspective thing. The 2007 comparisons are legitimate. Can’t help how we feel as fans. Previous experience biases how we perceive ensuing experiences. I’ve been waiting my entire life for this team to come out on top in a race that goes to the final weekend. Time for a win.
But on the attendance issue, the mixed messages of MLB and the media is much to blame. They’ve made it all about the playoffs. They’ve watered down the pennant race. They’ve devalued winning the regular season. Pitchers don’t stay in for the extra inning. Guys “build up” and take scheduled off days like it’s Spring training. Guys don’t play through aches and pains. We hear over and over how it’s all about getting so and so on the mound and healthy for the playoffs.
They should postpone the games against Atlanta until next week, and cancel the sleepy games that they have scheduled against Washington and Miami respectively.
It's been mentioned at times in various outlets...even Jeffrey has quoted it here, I think, that Buck to paraphrase, 'is okay with going 2-3' or .500 for bits of the season. Well the consequences of that are that we're tied for first with 0 margin for error when we should've wrapped it up last month. We have to basically win out to get the division.
I think that's called a false correlation. Because Buck is supposedly "okay" with losing games during the season is not why the Mets are tied for 1st place right now.
Though it might be why the pen is healthy and perfectly poised to excel here at the end of a long year.
So many things go into a season. To lay this on Buck's supposed willingness to lose games is a dramatic overstatement.
In the end, the Braves are a great team and for the Mets to win the Division, they are going to have to go down to Atlanta and take care of business. It's always been about Jake & Max and now here we are. We'll see what happens.
I would like them to win tonight.
A win would be nice.
I am playing the classic 'correlation is not causation' fallacy a....smidge, lol. It does appear we have a lot of 'getaway day' approaches to games that don't match up to the mantra/work ethic most games and tends to come on days we don't sweep a winnable series or beat a sub .500 team and pitcher that's got an ERA above 5.
Granted, it is heightened right now given context of the division race. Yes, don't put Diaz in every day and burn him out because we're going to the playoffs. And, there have been too many games where they keep Williams or Carrasco or Peterson or Smith or Lugo or MeGill in too long, hitters start piling up noncompetitive AB after noncompetitive AB from the 5th inning on and a game we can get even in or salvage win with a timely hit or a good bounce becomes an insurmountable and confusing loss.
For the Mets to win the division, the core of this team - the drafted, 'home grown' Mets have to overcome chronic flaws/deficits against ATL this weekend and especially the Nats next week that continue to show up in these games that cause us not to go 8-2 or put away the Braves in July/August/September: errors on double players, missing cutoff throws, diving for routine grounders or not deferring to a teammate down the line to complete a play, pitchers need to lock down the middle innings/relief, catchers need to throw out base runners, hitting with RISP <2 outs in more than 1 or 2 spots in the lineup, hitting lefty starters, hitting any starters early with POWER not 2014 KC Royals style.
The 'additions' have proven their worth in crunch time. Time for the 'core from 2019' - which includes Pete as much as people bristle I say that - to FINISH what they started, which is dominate lesser clubs and win the division. Not just 'sit back, relax and enjoy that we play baseball' as Pete famously said last year.
Well said, Lee.
That poised pen should have been used earlier last night. I understand not yanking deGrom earlier on Saturday, because he is deGrom and it was hard to believe he was going to fold like he did. But we’ve seen this many times from Carrasco, and the bullpen was rested. He did not right the ship in the second, and he did not right the ship in the third. The bullpen was completely rested with another off day scheduled on Thursday. What the hell was he saving these bullpen arms for if not for that last night?
And then once we got back in the game, Williams really just had to complete that second inning after the leadoff double? After the HBP? After the next single? Good grief, Buck. Use your hook!!!
5-2 if they win the series in Atlanta guarantees the division. They have made it harder on themselves by leaving a win or two on the table this month, but they don't need to run the table.
The Mets Math is in their heads and ours too.
Here’s one. Last night didn’t matter: even if they had won, the best they could hope for was clinching on Sunday, and that’s still the situation.
Win tonight and sweep the Braves. Anything short of that and the the team is playing against another bottom dweller at home next week in must win games with the likes of Carrasco and Walker on the hill. And we know how that might go.
All Hands On Deck Tonight, Buck. Biggest game of the year. Do not fall behind again because your bottom of the rotation starter has to work some crap out in the first inning. Pull him early if he stumbles and bring in a high leverage guy to right the ship.
And just start Luis and forget about those lame ass designated “hitters”.